This is from the innovate forums. Please read in particular #6.


http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3396&highlight=STS

and this:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5187&highlight=STS

You want the A/F of the engine, before the cats.

Mine is on the downpipe before the cat.

My egt is there too. You want info on the engine, not the turbo. The turbo affects what the engine does.

...i put mine in my header collector...about a foot before the cat...not sure how it would differ in a turbo application...

What the deal is and my bad for not completing this post is according to innovate temperatures over 800 degrees F can cause damage to and create inaccurate readings from, the sensor. This is especially a problem for remote turbo applications where temperatures and pressures easily exceed these limits do to the need to locate the sensor before the cats in order to receive accurate part throttle AFR readings. The answer is to create a 3" long bung with sealed end that you drill a 3/32" hole through where the deep bung attaches to the the exhaust. Then drill a 1/4" hole in the side of the bung towards where the sensor is mounted. Weld a 1/4" compression fitting to it. From there attach 1/4" flexible copper line parallel to your exhaust and dump it back into the exhaust "after the turbo". I strapped mine with metal bands to the exhaust itself running back past the turbo dumping it back into the exhaust stream ( weld another compression fitting here). I know it's a pain in the rear but you gotta to do what you have to to get accurate readings. This set up does two things, stands the sensor off the exhaust pipe reducing heat and through 3/32" input to 1/4" output causes a restriction reducing pressure but still allowing a high enough sample rate for accurate and damage free readings!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: atttaboy,

Sounds like overkill.

First off, my truck cruises hotter than 800*F as does every other. The sensor housing doesn't get near as hot and needs the protection. I don't think building an exhaust leak is going to help the turbo any.

It will be 2 years this fall with my Innovate wideband being hit with full pressures and 1400-1450* at full boost every time I drive it. No calibration problems at all. The gauge will throw an error code if the sensor gets too hot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not ragging on ya. Just arguing that Innovate is being over conservative. If I have problems in the future I will install a heatsink for the sensor.

Believe me I'm no expert, I'm just passing on what I was told and did. Believe me the shop that did it for me had a long discussion on the phone with Klaus at innovate before conceding that he was indeed correct.

As for 3/32" effecting your boost performance doubtful. And the problem is not readings for wide open throttle but for part throttle which is the area as I'm sure, being a fellow STS owner, that we turbo guys have the most difficulty tuning.

As for no problems how would you know, what's your reference? A sniffer in your tail pipe at the dyno doesn't cut it. That's why we're all putting it before the cats because that's what cats do, change the composition of the exhaust. At WOT it will be very close, at part throttle? I'll let you know next week some time when I have mine on the dyno what exactly the reading differences are.


Bottom line when I don't know something for sure I'm going with the experts.

My sensor is in front of the cat and no problems here.

Don't need that fancy stuff.

Who else says it besides Innovate. I hate those guys. Support sucks at best. Been on the phone with them many times in the past and they are full of it. Don't bother calling them anymore.

WOW Kenny... Tell us how you really feel!!! j/k

Mine is also right before the cats and I have never had any problems. My EGT gauge has shown a high of 1600 degrees(that is as high as it goes). I did blow out one EGT probe for being to hot though, lol.

Can anyone tell me how they know that they haven't damaged their sensor and that your
readings aren't off?

As for innovate when you talk to tech support ask for Felipe He's always been able to help me out. No complaints here! Although I have had issues.

How do you know when you receive a new one if it is working accurately or if using Innovate's way of installing will give you a more accurate reading? I Would have to buy another one to check my first one or maybe a couple because I don't know if the second one could be bad. I just have to trust that my readings are good because I have no reason to believe otherwise and don't want to waste my time or money having it checked.

I am in CA so maybe we can get together and test it out. I will lend you mine and we can check it out. Have a bung welded in just before the cats and we can compare both units. I lent it to a fellow STS Ram owner but should be getting it back soon.

I know mine is reading accurate because it still flipflops around 14.7 while the engine is in vacuum, same as it did new. Same as EGTs and the same results from reading the plugs.

This being said, I would never install the O2 sensor pre-turbo on a front mount turbo setup.

ps. Why the hell aren't widebands factory installed with the engine in constant closed loop! This drives me nuts. (North American auto builders)

quote:

3/32" input to 1/4" output causes a restriction reducing pressure

Don't agree with this at all. Think about that for a minute. Whenever you reduce something you actually increase pressure to it. Good example: Take a water hose, turn it on full blast. You get a nice full flow out the end. Now take your finger, put it over have the opening, and you get a high pressure blast out of the hose. I would have to assume the same thing would happen doing that with the exhaust tubing. Now if you did install that and put a 02 sim in there, which will reduce the opening of the hole, not reduce the pipe, then it may work.

quote:

Originally posted by atttaboy:

quote:

Originally posted by semo03hemiram:

quote:

3/32" input to 1/4" output causes a restriction reducing pressure

Don't agree with this at all. Think about that for a minute. Whenever you reduce something you actually increase pressure to it. Good example: Take a water hose, turn it on full blast. You get a nice full flow out the end. Now take your finger, put it over have the opening, and you get a high pressure blast out of the hose. I would have to assume the same thing would happen doing that with the exhaust tubing.

Good point. Now take that same size hose and attach it after your thumb and let me know if you still end up with the same volume of flow that you get if your thumb isn't there.

quote:

quote:

Now if you did install that and put a 02 sim in there, which will reduce the opening of the hole, not reduce the pipe, then it may work.

Not sure what an O2 sim in there would do in relation to volume and flow rate but I'm always up for learning!

quote:

Originally posted by SRT10KLLR:
How do you know when you receive a new one if it is working accurately or if using Innovate's way of installing will give you a more accurate reading? I Would have to buy another one to check my first one or maybe a couple because I don't know if the second one could be bad. I just have to trust that my readings are good because I have no reason to believe otherwise and don't want to waste my time or money having it checked.

I am in CA so maybe we can get together and test it out. I will lend you mine and we can check it out. Have a bung welded in just before the cats and we can compare both units. I lent it to a fellow STS Ram owner but should be getting it back soon.

Your on, that would be exactly what the doctor ordered! I'll PM you.